2.08 "Into the Deep" discussion thread

[dannystar9]

I didn't think this episode was terrible. Some of the others this season were way more boring than this one. I (don't kill me) thought that the Snowing stuff was pretty good. It made sense. They are the central part of this show and I thought that the scenes made sense and they were executed nicely. I used to think Josh was the weak link of the cast, but he's gotten so much better this season.

But FTL. Now that is a different story. None of you believed the it's Regina's fault, right? Yeah. me neither. Hook is supposed to be Regina with a penis and it's obvious. It's really obvious. I feel like we are all going to learn how to deal with Hook because I know that Colin will be a series regular later this year. Not sure why they won't add Beverly too. She's a wonderful actress and Cora is a really awesome character.

Okay. Back on topic. They are pushing this heterosexuality thing too far and I think they will start alienating their fan base. They want a progressive story and characters, but they aren't doing as much as they could and are able to do. Season 1 was a hit and season 2 gets record low viewers each week. What changed? Oh yeah. This drawn out FTL plot happened. Magic happened and wasn't thought out well enough. And Emma and Regina's separation happened.

Sorry. For this long ramble. But it's late and my thoughts just kind of typed themselves.

[agramontes]

Barbara Hershey was killing it tonight with all her scenes with hook.
When she does the 'so brave' at the beginning, so sexy.
And you can almost see how she's playing opposite Regina's.
That her mannerisms evoke Regina's so you could almost say,
'Ahh, see she gets that from her mom!' Sweet. I like very much.

[bellemalheur]

Nov 25, 2012 19:48:37 GMT -6 marieyotz said:

ETA: Just ended. So Hook and Regina know each other, huh? Veeeeeery interesting.

I'm almost positive that that's not Regina but infant Cora in disguise. I mean I could be wrong and they could be playing up the similarities but.....I think it's Cora.

[scribb1es]

I'm falling out of fangrrl squees with this show. And while this is better than last week, the focus is so stuffed it makes me wonder if the writers/producers are deaf, dumb and blind. Charming-centric eps always suck because the earnest hero macho brute stuffs it up with his unrelenting dullness.

Regina and Rumpel - so promising. Chemistry set Regina - so fun. I adored the way she sneered that Henry's grandparents will always find each other. That line was so well delivered it was like she was giving a speech on her rage.

But Henry, dear god, is it too late to throw Bailee Madison in short pants and call her Henry? Is the kid getting worse? I mean, being a child actor is the worst kind of hard, they're still growing and learning and only young, but I am wondering if he might be coached a little more beyond those three facial expressions?

Cora - well now, high arch, I bow to thee. But all in all, it wasn't enough. Hook - I am STILL laughing too hard at his manscaped to perfection eye makeup and designer stubble to buy him as Hook. Actually in the scene where Granny announces for everyone to clear out the diner, there's a dude in the background of her shot and I said "HIM! Make HIM Hook!" Not a good sign when you start recruiting random Vancouver extras.

I am rambling. Out of 10, 6.5 - and all for Regina and a lil kickbutt Snow. Not, it should be pointed out, for her godawful wail-flails over losing Charming. Shudder. Still rambling. That's it.

[betaoffread]

With some quibbles, I liked this ep. Plots needed to be serviced so I was okay with Charming and Snow finding each other - again. At least those two have chemistry - I do actually buy them being into each other.

Emma still looks all at sea without her stablemate, Regina. She really does.

Aurora and Mulan - I just don't know where they're going with those two, if at all.

Regina with Henry in the chem lab was the intimacy I have often missed from season one. Loved that scene - I thought Jared was okay in this ep. He's a kid, I'd be worried if he was too good at acting.

The think musak goes on whenever Hook is talking.

I thought they weaved the scenes together just fine - it wasn't jarring, unlike Tallahassee. Carlyle was sublime as usual. Belle was kept to two lines - perfect. Nice cameo from Granny.

Cora is going to be an interesting villain - especially when it's showdown time with Regina.

[scribb1es]

Was it just me or did they miss a golden opportunity? The moment Henry revealed Regina's mother was around, they flipped to Regina. One second later, we're at an ad break. I would have held the crap out of that shot; and I'd have asked for more from Lana. One of the few times I thought she could have done more. Hell - the only time.

[betaoffread]

Was it just me or did they miss a golden opportunity? The moment Henry revealed Regina's mother was around, they flipped to Regina. One second later, we're at an ad break. I would have held the crap out of that shot; and I'd have asked for more from Lana. One of the few times I thought she could have done more. Hell - the only time.

So much plot had to be chewed through this ep - there was more Cora exposition in the scene with Rumple in the diner to show the terror that Cora brings. Time constraints - something had to be sacrificed. Holding a shot that doesn't further the plot is an obvious dead wood.

I do think Regina should have look more surprised though, given apparently everyone thought Cora dead.

[femmemajority]

Favorite scene - Regina making the sleeping curse with the chem set. Adorable! I somewhat like her sweeter side...but after watching Cora I miss the EQ and all the sass, smirks, and snap. I miss all the feisty energy between Regina and Emma. I would love Emma to see Regina in all her EQ glory.

Agreed...you'd think Rumple and Regina would bring a little bit *more* after finding out Cora is not only alive but coming to town.

Overall, I appreciate that the show seems to be getting back on track towards reuniting SQ and Snowing.

[scribb1es]

Nov 26, 2012 0:00:18 GMT -6 betaoffread said:

So much plot had to be chewed through this ep - there was more Cora exposition in the scene with Rumple in the diner to show the terror that Cora brings. Time constraints - something had to be sacrificed. Holding a shot that doesn't further the plot is an obvious dead wood.

I do think Regina should have look more surprised though, given apparently everyone thought Cora dead.

Dead wood? I was only asking for three more seconds. OK two at a pinch.

[shawngf]

I have less issue with Emma's thoughtless blame because I think we're supposed to condemn it. I think she is frustrated and angry and completely over FTL. Real people become unreasonable under extreme stress, why shouldn't Emma who has such a limited emotional palette? Was it kind or empathetic? No but I think it's preposterous to assume Emma has adapted enough to this world to just nod her head at a blood feud that even we find just a bit absurd. Emma isn't a flat character and she can't be perfect if she's going to be interesting. In the grand scheme of things, this says less about her relationship with Regina(or anyone's viewpoint on Regina) and more about Emma's stress levels.

[giftofamber]

So what I'm hearing is that I can wait til tomorrow morning to watch the episode?

Also, *of course* Emma is mad and blames Regina: she wanted the whole curse thing to be over a woman, not a man. Emma was still holding out hope even after the whole Graham affair. That's my headcanon & I'm sticking to it (at least til I watch the episode).

[leavingstorybrooke]

I thought this episode was surprisingly good: hardly a dull moment, brilliant interactions between Regina & Rumpel, Snowing scenes that didn't make me fall asleep, Cora being sassy and wonderful but so detestable as well, Hook FINALLY being a villain because I couldn't stomach him as a ~good guy at heart~, Snow speaking bird (show, thank you for that. I love you sometimes), Mulan trying to save her true love, awesome twist with Aurora's heart being stolen....

but most of all, Regina and Henry. I've been waiting so long for these scenes, I've read them in so many fics, I've plotted them out a hundred ways in my head... and they finally happened. And they were actually what I wanted, for once! Henry had the perfect balance of fear and curiosity about magic, he sought comfort from Regina, he was never accusatory and he supported and trusted her. So perfectly sweet. I got a little weepy. Obviously SQ has been nonexistent since 2x01 so Regina/Henry is the only relationship I've cared about - and this was what I needed. Can't wait for my 720p download so I can rewatch properly!

(And the promo made me concerned that it's all going to be ruined again because it looks like Regina has a hand in endangering the Charmings' lives with magic and that is NOT GOOD and aaaaah ramblings and feelings.)

But guys, now that Hook is pretty much being totally evil again, I think it's safe to say that Hook/Emma is not happening. At least not for now? That sword fight looks epic.

ALSO WHAT I DON'T WANNA WAIT UNTIL JANUARY.

[elviswhataguy]

What I have to assume was going on inside Emma's head while Snow was doing her (fairly admirable) 'blame game' thing:

"La la la ... not listening ... la la la ... I wonder what's for dinner tonight ..."

I didn't know whether to laugh or ... not laugh.

[femble91]

^Haha I imagine that's probably what was going thourgh there head.

After a re watch of this episode, I can say I really enjoyed it. I hated that Emma was blaming Regina partly because my SQ goggles are on and the partly because didn't she realize from what snow said that playing the blame game accomplishes nothing. What I did like, Regina and Henry having a normal really awesome mother/son moment.

[Deleted]

I'm posting this here because I don't dare post it where the Rumbelle-r who made me this mad posted. You all will understand.

I will quote only the smallest part of what this Rumbelle-r said:

You guys don't think they'll dub Gold as "evil" for making the portal deadly, do you? Regina is probably the one who started that. I need Belle and Rumple to be happy forever xD

OK. Rant time.

Seriously? How can you still go with Rumple is not evil and Regina's to blame for everything after Rumple's line in "The Doctor": "I've got my monster, now you go make yours." Crap, people, Rumple DESTROYED Regina, at every turn, for his own gain.

And that was just his next move after he stopped her from leaving on horseback after pushing Cora through the mirror. Her line: "that (to get away) was my plan all along." and Rumple instead lures her with the "drug" of magic to keep with it. His words to her asking, "What do you get out of it?" were "One day you'll do something for me." He even said "together, the way we were supposed to be." He *bargained* for her from Cora, and the only caveat to the deal I can think that Cora (Miller's daughter from original Rumpelstiltskin tale) made was, she'd groom Regina for the power Rumple needed her to have as long as she was allowed to keep her child. Figuring he didn't need to raise the infant Regina as long as Cora kept her part of the deal, Rumple agreed. And besides, allowing Cora to raise her meant that Rumple wouldn't get emotionally attached to Regina, possibly losing his chance at corrupting her because he feared he might come to care for her as he had his son. If he had the guts, and the determination, he could have raised Regina, come to love her as a parent loves a child, and then ripped HER heart out, to cast the Dark Curse and find his son. But he couldn't risk the long-term effects of caring for someone else who wasn't Bae.

He didn't have the guts to sacrifice something he loved to get his curse enacted, so he set about "making" someone who would be in the right mindset, with the requisite powers, who could. The Blue Fairy had suggested that there might be a non-curse way, but he (as far as we know) never even investigated it. He just set out to make someone so alone, so empty, so broken, that she would do his dirty work for him.

That's Fagin-ish. That's the Devil. That's EVIL.

I hope Regina eventually learns the full depth of what he did to secure her as his "apprentice." Belle doesn't deserve him. Bae, should he ever find his way to Storybrooke, should turn his back on his father.

And if you go with "The Dark One" overtook his normal sensibilities, remember that he's making OTHERS do; that's the acting of the cowardice within the man, and was a personality trait even before he became the Dark One. No, I'm not ignoring his pains: a wife who didn't love him, a son lost to him, but both of those were his own doing. Regina's losses were all orchestrated at HIS hands. Her soul was destroyed because HE REQUIRED IT AND MADE IT SO.

Rumpelstiltskin is, IMHO, irredeemable until he takes on his culpability in everything and admits it.


---
Now back to me (a little calmer now that I've gotten this off my chest!)

Do you think I should post this to that other board anyway and try to withstand the firestorm likely to ensue?